Requiring your honest oppinion

in regards to this thread.
Feel free to express your oppinion either on this blog or in the thread itself, as long as you don’t flame someone (or ask for a release date :P) I can promise not to ban anyone.

Current resumê from my side: LINK

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48 Responses to Requiring your honest oppinion

  1. morkil says:

    That guy’s right about your lack of communication with the community – and that also means you need to tell people when the release will be made (at least what are your current plans). Open sourcing the code would be great too … and it can be a very good point on your resume 🙂

  2. Freowin says:

    First time ever I commant on the IC blog, just wanted to say you guys have until now done a great job, yes things can be improved and it would be nice to have hotfixes but at the end you are creating something for us and we gotta thank you, not the other way round.

  3. Altaree says:

    The good:
    The Mod is WONDERFUL! I love the fact that an add-on community has sprung up around it.

    The bad:
    Three weeks after a major MC version upgrade without a patch.
    No communication about what is happening and when bug will be fixed. (forum stickies/edits to the 1.06 release post)

    About OSS/Github:
    In a world where people could decompile your mod and release their own version, I don’t see much of a down side to exposing the mod’s code. You might even get some helpful pull requests. If someone wants to make a change that you don’t think belongs in IC2, that person can create an addon.

    An added benefit is that people who would like to know what is going on with IC2 dev can just look at the commit log.

    Thank you for your time.

    • Blaster says:

      Keep in mind Omg, the dev team still has lives, i would be fime if the mod dosn’t update for a large period of time, but i agree with the several request of Github. Who knows, we may find a bug and help fix it

  4. Black_Hole says:

    First of all, I want to say that Industrialcraft is my favorite mod of all time (though Redpower is a close second). It is the second mod I ever played after Buildcraft, and since then I have never played without it. I feel that Industrialcraft has one of the best developer groups I know. You guys upgraded to 1.3 very quickly, before any other mods I use (except maybe Forestry), and I feel that Kane Hart was being unnecessarily mean and very unfair when he was complaining about not having a hotfix when I’m here still waiting on Redpower and an official Buildcraft release.

    When a new Minecraft version comes out, I never update right away, because I know it’ll be buggy before the next series of hotfixes come out; but I know that each version of Industrialcraft has been beta tested extensively and that it won’t break my saves.

    I feel that when SpaceToad left Buildcraft, he did it at the wrong time and in the wrong way. He left Buildcraft 3 halfway done, and it sure feels like the just feel of the edge of the Earth leaving everything up to SirSengir and Krapht. Until 1.3, the only thing they had done was awkwardly port Buildcraft 2 and 3 forward, and I’ll bet that’s because they had so much to learn about Buildcraft that they couldn’t do anything more than that.

    And then there is Eloraam, who insists on doing all the work by herself and jealously guarding her secrets. Granted, her work is incredible, and it does feel worth the wait when it’s done, but as I said I’m still waiting on her to even make a single post on her blog about 1.3.

    It is true that I feel it would be nice if you would make more posts about Industrialcraft development, and listen more to player suggestions (and make more config options so people can customize their Industrialcraft experience more, that way you can make it the way you want and still allow people with different tastes to have it their way) but I feel that you have done a wonderful job creating a hard working and well organized team who can give Industrialcraft quick, stable updates and keep players moving forward. I feel that while Kane Hart had a few good points he was far to mean about it and did not give you or your team the credit you so rightfully deserve.

    The only thing Industrialcraft needs is more of what you’re already doing. Good luck and thank you all.

  5. 1n5aN1aC says:

    I absolutely love the mod, and I agree with almost everything you say.

    That being said, a bit more transparency is always nice. (I don’t mean making estimated release dates, I just mean at least saying what’s going on, plans, etc.)

    And while open source code would be nice, it doesn’t really accomplish anything other than people making hot-fixes themselves, and/or people saying your code stinks, or other such derogatory outcomes.

  6. Killra Stealer says:

    I really like your mod but some of the points he makes is kind of true. there are some really annoying bugs that need to be fixed and more updates would be really nice. Also some more communication would be nice. As for the huge amount of insult that he mixes it with is really unnecessary.

  7. Mctribble says:

    I use your mod on a fairly casual basis, and I enjoy it an awful lot. I have been purely single player lately, so I don’t know what these bugs are exactly, but I skimmed over the video and the thread and it really looked to me like people only have a couple real complaints:

    They would like hotfixes for major bugs
    They would like a little more communication

    I for one totally respect that what you do here is a hobby, and I think most of your fans are the same way. I have only minor coding experience, so I don’t know how much work it is to set out a hotfix, but I honestly think even an occasional “we’re working on it, but things are going to be a bit slow” would do wonders.

    It really looks like people just feel a little “out of the loop”. If you tell people you have a fix for something, they’re going to feel a bit confused when they don’t get that fix. Even just a “we have a fix for that, but we have something else we need to get sorted before we can post an update” would help a lot.

  8. Ranki says:

    In my honest opinion, this guy only made one valid point, you probably should communicate better with the community with what is going on about where the progress of IC2 stands. Otherwise the rest of his video was just some whiny baby that wasnt getting what he wanted when he wanted it, thats the end of that story.
    To end my statement, Minecraft without Industrial Craft is not a game worthy of being played.

    PS: I also think you should separate on the home page things pertaining to your writings and other things from the industrial craft related news, just to make it easier for everyone to tell when something new shows up what it is about.

  9. Greg79 says:

    Do all of you realize that having an outdated virtual life is not the end of the world? Ok, minecraft is now popular. IC2 is now popular! You now got used to minecraft getting a lot of improvements and updates, as an enterprise should, and many mod developers feeling like enterprising their stuff. That doesn’t mean Alblaka should devote himself to meet your NEW standards. Neither should he abandon his project for others to reclaim it. IC is his gift to you all. Giving his toys (as he grew old :-P) to you little kids (literally!) just for you to keep asking for more!?! IC is HIS baby and I think it should never be handed over just because you made him not love it anymore! Now really… find something really important to worry about!
    PS I would reply to the thread but I don’t feel like creating an account just for that. Copy it there if you have the kindness. -ΠΓρ

  10. Techmago says:

    Yeah, i agree with most of it. The industrial was the “first” on a hell lot of things, and still is my main mod, but it just acts as a suport. And i fell the lack of more complex machines, like all the multiblock machines on BC, railcraft, forestry…
    Really, Ic was the first on most stuff, why its behind now?

    • Alamac says:

      @Techmago It’s been discussed on the forums many times before that multiblock machines (if not done properly like in GregoriusT’s addon) cause a lot of additional lag that single block machines do not cause, other than this debatable thing, what else is it “behind on”?

  11. Brax says:

    Kane_Hart was a bit harsh in the video, but he did bring up some good points.

    My two cents:
    Your communication with the community is terrible. It just is. there’s no other way to say it. If you need people to provide “examples” of WHY it’s terrible, you’re clueless and need to hire better PR people.

    You take things too personally. You read that you stopped watching Kane_Hart’s video about 80 seconds in. That’s terrible! Regardless of how offended you were, his video was made by a member of your mod’s fanbase who obviously felt that his voice wasn’t being heard.

    Most people visit this blog specifically for information regarding IndustrialCraft development, rather than for your writing or interests. While it is an excellent marketing strategy to use your more popular product’s (IC) reputation to sell your written works (which you are absolutely doing in this blog and your forums), it’s a thinly-veiled gimmick.

    However, you make an excellent point. You created IC for fun, we get that. You still see it as YOUR mod. And for the time being, it is. But let’s be honest: IC2 has become too big for your britches. Maybe it’s time to expand your dev team and take a backseat to development, like how Notch did with Minecraft itself.

    We appreciate all the work you’ve done. I respect that it gets tiring sifting through the same bugs reported over and over. I respect that you’re sick of the complaining and whining and begging.

    YOU created the product, Alblaka. YOU put it out into the public domain. If you can’t deal with the consequences (both good and bad) of your product being out there, please, PLEASE pass it off to someone who can.

    • Brax says:

      oops, meant to write “I read that you stopped watching Kane_Hart’s video about 80 seconds in.”, not “You read”. 😛

  12. Junoblaze says:

    While some of what the guy is saying is true, i personally don’t see it as a big deal. It’s a free mod, i don’t see why someone should rant on it like it’s something as important as starting a new world war. The guy states that redpower should not exist because Eloraam won’t talk to the users. It’s not like she’s the president of a country and a rebel group is going to kill her because she is not governing right. It’s a free mod that is most likely a hobby. Why take it like it’s a big deal. I get that someone likes the mod and want’s to give suggestions, i think the guy is just taking it to seriously. When i see a new version of a mod hasn’t come out yet i’ll just be like meh, i would like it if it came out, but it’s not a big deal.

  13. Zach says:

    Okay this mod has been in my jar since 4 days after you posted it on the Minecraft forums, I remember when you got spammed by people asking for cables and you promptly told them wired energy is impossible. Hell i remember when you could power solar panels with torches. Over the years (it’s been at least 2 now hasn’t it?) This mod kept getting better, and has remained my favorite mod, but lately as in the last month or 3 the updates on progress have screeched to halt. In my opinion this should be changed. another thing is a suggestion updating more frequently with hotfixes. you used to do it and minor bugs never lasted more than one version.

    Oh god i nastalgia’d all over the floor.
    keep up the good work

  14. zjohn4 says:

    Wow, this just keeps on going on… I understand what he means TO SOME DEGREE. I wait patiently for new IC2 build since i know how long it will take. I dont notice bugs so i guess, it doesnt get me aggravated. I ALSO know how annoying it can be to both update/port and to actually get around to coding when I dont feel like it. Its been ages since 1.3.2 has been released and ive only JUST gotten around to updating my mods and theyre tiny. I take it as a hobby too.

  15. ArsenicAlchemist says:

    Personally, I think that people like Kane and the other flamers and hatemongers on this thread need to just sit back, chill, go to a spa, go take a relaxing stroll, or something. This is just to ridiculous, you people are getting this upset over a game. You are acting like 1st graders fighting over crayons, no worse, I’ve seen better behaved 1st graders. You’re like that third period that a girl goes through; enough times that your sick and tired of it but such little understanding of why. You have to realize that not everybody is an average obese American that doesn’t mind the thought of dying in front of a computer. (I am a overweight American so don’t you even flame me on that) Give some common respect to the dev-team and Alblaka.

    Alblaka, as my first post I’d like to thank you for your and your dev-team’s work on this mod. I’d also like to say that I agree with you that making this opensource would be making an open sore for you somewhere down the line. It is in your best interest to keep this accomplished mod code to the team that is working on it.
    However, there must be made a middle path. At the point at which I believe this has come, it is my opinion that there (if to be good relations between you and your mod’s users) must be some allowances toward more updated posts. Personally, I am fine with that update being about Hatsune Miku or your E-Book decisions and information about your book. But there must also be updates stating the nature of the current state of development on IC2.
    I believe that if you do in fact have PR personnel that you should, indeed, look for better staffing in that position. PR meaning public relations, you should not have needed to concern yourself with this matter your PR staff should have monitored this and coordinated with you on a reply rather than you having to take time out of your day to end up hearing such hurtful bull ka-ka as what was stated in the video concerning your works of literary art.
    To sum up…
    1.) Do not make IC2 opensource (it causes opensores)
    2.) Do update more and release development statuses about what is currently being focused on.
    3.) Reconsider your staffing as far as PR is concerned. If you do not have PR staff, get appropriate people to take the spot (not devs or testers but dedicated PR staff)
    4.) Have a great weekend.

  16. LilGimli says:

    Hey al, just my opinion

    Industrialcraft was the first mod i ever played with, before that i knew almost nothing of mods and viewed them all as OP and cheating, but your mod changed that for me. ever since i first play the original IC, when we had full block cables, i have enjoyed your mod and it opened my eyes to the modding world. I now play with all the technical mods and simply wont update until they are ready, so obviously you have done something right. I had no problems with the waiting period after 1.3 because i realised how much had changed and what would have to happen for you guys to update, then with the reactor rework, i considered it reasonable.

    You have done a great job, taking this mod from “just another mod” to “Industrialcraft2”, getting a team together, creating a mod that is really, like another version of minecraft. I feel that people are asking too much of mod authors nowadays, you do this because you enjoy it, that’s the way it works, you shouldn’t be doing it for the sake of doing it.


  17. Mercor says:

    Well there are some really good points. Ok I get that there are bugs and that open sourcing isn’t that good, but maybe well, one way to solve some problems may be to set up some issue-tracker, so players can post info about it and at least then there won’t be a lot of repeating bugs, just like Kane_Hart told. You don’t have to open-source, but some issue-tracker for bugs overview and you can just comment on some bugs that they will be fixed in later release, or something like that. At least people know what’s up then.

    • Mercor says:

      Well your mod is great, just yea, on some issues, seeing them just being in game for long time isn’t good :(.

      Since I have to go to mandatory military service, then probably server we used to play with some friends is going down because anyone else doesn’t know how to search fixes for some bugs. There are fixes for some issues, at least in 1.2.5 server there seemed to be like some forge issue with Mystcraft, and it took quite a while to get some solution to it. 🙁

      Still respect to you guys, you have really great mod. Just something like happened at some time, you had quite good communication with players while minecraft was still beta.

  18. ljo9091 says:

    I have a small private server for just a couple of friends and we have quite a few mods installed on it, IC2 being one of them. As each version of MC comes out it becomes a waiting game for the mods to update so we can upgrade the server. I don’t believe anyone out there should have a problem with the amount of time this takes. Most of us understand this takes time, you have personal lives and in most cases, a full time job. For the most part updates are very quick. We also understand that the latest version of MC has caused a considerable delay this time. I don’t think anyone can complain about that. I for one am actually happy about this one, no more will I see a mod I’m interested in trying only to find it has no SMP support.

    I usually don’t read through the threads on these sites and for the most part I stay out of whatever drama is going on in them. However, the one thing I have never understood is the universal dislike of the requests for updates or ETAs. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not asking for one, and I never will. But as a server owner, I understand why people ask. Of all the mods I am waiting for a 1.3.2 update from there are 3 categories, the ones that update nearly instantly, the ones that interact with their users by giving a quick “moving right along on the update”, I’ve even seen the occasional “should be sometime this week” and then there are the ones like IC2, no updates, no communication, just one day out of the blue a new version is on the site and anyone who dares to even ask for a progress is met with the threat of a ban from the site. I can understand how it came to that; the number of ETA requests must have been incredible to drive an entire modding community to the point of alienating the very user who made their mod as popular as it is.

    I certainly can’t end this without giving my suggestion. If I could wish one thing it would be this… add one more person to the long list of people involved with the IC2 project. You need someone who can keep a small section of the website dedicated to a status. I’m not saying an ETA, you probably don’t have one. Just a quick update on the progress will go a long way. And just to show that I’m not all talk, I will even volunteer to be that person if needed. You’re always going to have those who will drive you nuts asking for an ETA and if banning them is the best way to deal with it then go for it. But don’t forget, for each one of those users, there are thousands of quiet, patient ones waiting for the next update to a really great mod.

    There are very few mod developers who give me the impression that they hate the users who use their mod. Don’t forget that without us, who use and love these mods, you might as well pack it up and find something else to do. IC2 and RP2 are the only mods I use that really give me the sense that while you may love programming and making your mods, you really don’t want everything that comes with that, the fan base.

    Thank you for giving us the opportunity to express our honest opinions freely, this is the first time I’ve had the impression that you really care about our thoughts.

    • Alblaka says:

      The main point people refuse to understand: In programming, placing fix ETAs is barely possible. Even professional corporations are subject to this and it’s a fundamental question in theory of CS. Writing abstract code and algorythms is nothing you can do in a fix timeframe, because it’s near-impossible to predict all sort of cases and bugs occuring.

      And in stuff as mod developement, giving an ETA and NOT keeping is will cause waves of hate.

      If you insist, I ‘could’ give you an ‘ETA’, according the lines of ‘Next update withing the next 6 months’. The probability of this statement is high enough. It still won’T satisfy anyone, will it? The more accurate you specify the timeframe, the less likely it will succeed.
      That’s why I don’t bother giving out ETAs, unlike it’s an ETA related to, f.e., uploading a file or suchlike.
      And if people keep poking you, asking for dates, it’s one of the most annoying things people can do. Think of the “Are we there yet?”-scenario, just with a couple hundreds of different people asking. There for sure isn’t malicious intent in the question, nonetheless it’s annoying as heck.

      Hope this helps understanding my PoV.

      • LilGimli says:

        I see your point of view but i think even the simplest of posts, not even an ETA, possibly a “fixing bugs” post would satisfy many people, i, myself don’t really care for ETAs and see your position on this, but i hate to see a mod author get this feedback by the community, i simply think they’re asking alot of you. like you said, ETAs can give false hope and if that deadline isn’t met what happens? in trying to meet that deadline, fixing the bugs, you may get more than what you start with.

        Keep up the good work al,

      • SimirAge says:

        First, your fixed ETA isn’t an ETA then – it’s a delivery date. Just because people on the forums don’t know what the E stands for doesn’t mean you need to also change its meaning.

        If you (IC), BC, RP and the rest don’t want to give an ETA, that’s fine. But at what point do your users deserve some respect? Simple communication even on a weekly basis that you’re working on it would be nice.

        After 1.3 released I saw a couple of authors posted they were out until Sept and wouldn’t do anything till then. I was disappointed, but at least I knew not to expect anything until some time after that date. Your mod is popular because other people in the world use it. Maybe they don’t have a right to ask for anything, but in practice, at what point do users of software at least deserve a little respect?

        IC, BC and RP in particular – those devs could learn a lot about simple communication with the people they are writing things for. If you’re like the BTW author and you could care less if anyone uses what you write, just simple put that up front like he does and be done with it. If you do care about being a successful mod author(s), don’t forget how your success is defined.

        By the way, I love IC and I’m limping along with some of the bugs, but I’m making it work till the bugs are fixed because I love what it adds to the game. Thank you for working on IC.

  19. Punker180 says:

    Id say im on the fence about the whole thing. Idc about ETA’s because Alblaka your right ETA’s just piss people off when its not reached. But a show on progress is wonderful. or hell like a spoiler or something. idc about waiting for the mod, idc if it came out a month from now. All I care about is hearing about is when im checking your site daily and not seeing anything different. I’d just like to even see hey we hit a problem release is going to take longer.

    • cespenar says:

      yeah I totally agree. It’s not about ETAs and noone blames you for not working full time on one of your hobbies. Just some more communication would be nice. And if you currently have no time at all for working on it just give some short news like “busy with other stuff – don’t expect anything new in the next two weeks” or so.
      Oh about that video, that was pretty bad. 20mins of mostly yelling. 3mins would have been enough for telling what they acutally wanted to tell. But at least… they got your attention 😉

      • Alblaka says:

        ‘But at least… they got your attention’
        I would say that’s pretty much the only thing it was good for. But hey, as I’ve said in the thread: “Let’s hope this is one of the rare times where ranting actually has an useful effect”

  20. LordFokas says:

    There are a few things I really feel I must say. First of all, I too am a developer, I’m making this game called Titallus for about a year, and like Alblaka, I’ve stored all the project’s code away and restarted it, for the sake of the project itself. I’ve done it twice already, I’ve started it from scratch for the third time recently…

    Now, there is this lack of communication, that is very serious. It won’t hurt the project, but it will hurt the community. In my case I keep a blog (called DevBlog) on it’s own subdomain, and update it for half a dozen of readers. When I change something, whether they’ll notice it or not, I post it there, and I even make some previsions for future updates. Everyone already knows that it isn’t accurate and it may change anytime, but they also know I’ll let them know that…

    I visit this blog on a daily basis, to keep up with the news, because IC2 is my favorite mod. I never found it hard to post on my blog, either before or after coding something, letting my players know what’s going to happen, even If they can’t tell the difference. And Alblaka, I hope someday you’ll figure something like that out too, because everyone wants to know what’s going on, even if it’s “Hey I changed some methods on a certain class, now the mod will be 1% less CPU Intensive”.

    I’m not asking for ETA’s, I’m not asking for you to code all the time (hey, I code my game when I feel like coding too), all I ask is that you let us know. You could even giver your dev team access to the blog, so they can keep us up to date.

    As for Kane, I personally think he has absolutely no clue what he’s talking about, given even him admits he has no coding abilities, but in one thing he’s right: you should communicate with your players, your followers, your community…

    Sorry for the long post, and keep the good work, I’m loving it. <3

    • Alblaka says:

      I understand your point of view, though I would like to mention (which doesn’t exactly object the point you given), that there is a difference between writing a blog entry for a handful of known people and a few thousand, a number which automatically contains hundreds of potentially VERY inpatient people.

      • LordFokas says:

        Well, they’re a handful of people because the project is still young and small… In your case, it would still prevent the calm and patient ones to turn to the raging / hating / impatient side.
        Like what just happened to Kane.

        I run a forum with about 15k members, most of them we don’t really know, and we have some game servers, (Like metin2 servers and browser games), and we handle them much better when they’re informed.

        What I’m saying is, I know what it is to be a developer and have a lot of people expecting updates from you, and I know what it is to manage a big community. I also love your mod. I’m just trying to help 🙂

  21. DrSquick says:

    Alblaka, one thing to keep in mind is that greatness becomes the new bar to surpass. I played vanilla minecraft for ten hours or so before shelving it for months. I went back hearing about “mods” and played some of the first versions of IC. I can now honestly say that I have put more hours into IC than any other game, ever. I would easily estimate it at a thousand+ hours.

    IC2 was the first super-mod that I can remember. It was highly polished, offered ground-breaking new features, and changed people’s perception on what a minecraft mod could be. That set people’s expectation of the growth rate and level of depth a “good mod” should have. You were releasing a new feature or significant bug fixes every couple weeks, and people got used to that. Just when we were starting to get bored of their world, you release a new version, we level our world, and poof – there was another 30 hours of gaming bliss.

    Then I’m assuming real life, and boredom from working on the same project day-in and day-out happened. Release schedules slowed, communication dried up, and your fans hungered for information about what they could look forward to next in IC. You owe people exactly what they paid for the mod – nothing. However, you have a very loyal following of thousands of people who still check your site every day for an update. Traditionally you have responded to the longing for more information hostilely, threatening to ban people who ask you for information (such as a release date). Yes, I’m sure being asked for a date constantly is annoying, but think of it as your children looking up to you longily saying, “Alblaka, I love your mod so much I took the time to make an account and reach out to you.”

    You might consider one of two paths. First, if you are still actively working on IC, give a weekly update of what your thoughts are, and what you are working on. Preface them all with “these are my thoughts, nothing may manifest of them, don’t take them as IC’s guaranteed direction.” You would be amazed how much more docile people will be if they know something will come eventually. If, however, you are done with IC, hand it off gracefully. You birthed something amazing that will forever hold a special place in people’s minds, don’t let it fizzle and die. Let it splinter into a whole host of different mods. In five years you might come back and be amazed at the different mods that people who are just as enthused and have just as much free time as you once did can make if they can stand on a giant’s shoulders.

  22. yptrumpet says:

    I sympathize with both sides. The situation is not ideal for either. My stance on this is little more than the traditional saying “beggars can’t be choosers,” though I cast it in very general terms. Alblaka is a charitable giver of free products/services and the public is a receiver of said free goods.

    It would indeed be nice if providers of free software (or free anything) could give ETAs, immediate fixes to reported bugs, and quick implementations of requested features. And it is a disappointment when reality doesn’t match expectations (that is, when your recent giving is less than your historical giving). It is also upsetting that despite all you have provided, those who benefit from your charity become angry with you for your reduced giving.

    However, we must remember that Alblaka owes us nothing. He (she? not sure) has made no promises or guarantees, expressed or implied, to maintain any level of service. He could literally abandon his projects and not even tell you; it is his right as a giver of free goods and services. It wouldn’t be nice (and he wouldn’t do that, because we know he is a good person), but it is impossible for anyone to accuse him of wrongdoing.

    In summary, I agree with the feelings experienced by both sides, but in my view Alblaka has done nothing wrong. Not in his lack of updates, not in his lack of communication, and most certainly not in refocusing his time from coding to writing. If he wants to listen to such requests, that is his prerogative, not his duty. If he chooses to do so, he’ll be all the more charitable for it, but should remember that the requests never stop and the backlash from dropping the project or slowing work on it is inevitable.

    As for the public, it is ridiculous to expect them to behave properly, especially on the Internet. Alblaka just has to remain firm in his decisions despite the inescapable public criticisms.

  23. mohrad says:

    My few cents to the whole fuss:
    – I like how Alblaka&C.O. are working
    – I like the content they add/modify so far
    + Can’t understand the nature of the vid complaint, it’s hobby after all (the mod coding)

  24. Cirrus0 says:

    While i can not completely agree with Kane, he is definetly right in some points.

    We need hotfixes. (I fell stupid running geothermals on lava when everyone else does it with water)

    We need more communication. (You’re not allowed to ask about how the development is going and no one is telling you. How should we know?)

    I would suggest a better way of reporting bugs.
    - Only bugs for the current version are shown. (So we don't have to read through 3-6 pages of bugreports only to not get our heads ripped off)
    - Multiple reports of the same bug should be mergable by the team (That way they would give more depth to the original report and not just float around there)
    - Bugs should be taggable as "resolved in version X.YZ" or "planned in X.YZ", so that we avoid the whole "it's already fixed - no it's not" thingy

    We need to come to the mutual conclusion, that “the other side” are only humans, that might not have as much time as we do ourselves.

    Now i just want to give my opinion:
    I personally had two “collisions” with the IC2-Development team since the last release.
    The first time, i reported a bug that was already reported. Before i reported, i used the search function (wich gave me nothing but old threads) and i asked in the irc channel if anyone knew of this bug (nothing). I was pointed at my mistake, ok.

    The second time i did the same steps, same result. But this time i was very harshly adressed (only parts here) “this reported to be fixed in 107. search button”
    Very nice. Not only that my counterpart was wrong, because it was nowhere to find (There had been similar reports, but they were not the same bug) but i could also not find any information on how, why or where it was reported to be fixed in 107.
    As a developer myself, this makes me frustrated and very angry.
    Not only did my bug get dismissed as an old one, when it was in fact a new report, wich means that you have a bug still in there that _was_ reported, but on “the other side” there was consensus that i did not even bother to check.

    As a developer, i have been torn apart between refraining to use IC2 (because if i keep on using it, i want to report bugs i find and help make it better, that is currently not very satisfying) and offering my help (my schedule says i clearly do not have enough time to contribute, and if i can’t do it whole heartedly, i better don’t). I will take a look at how this discussions goes and will maybe be presented with a third option at the end.

    • Alblaka says:

      Jep, bug reporting in an overcrowded forum isn’t exactly the best way of doing it.

      If the forum software would actually do what it’s meant to do, we could f.e. use the “Pending” scheme of the Addon section as well (effectively having a first forum full of confirmed, described bugs and a second one full of pointless and repeated threads noone needs to bother with.

  25. sky_demon says:

    I love this line :)) I can promise not to ban anyone.

    • Alblaka says:

      The line is “as long as you don’t flame someone … I can promise not to ban anyone”.
      Someone read it like you did and forgot the former part… R.I.B. 😛

  26. wicshade says:

    Me and my friends have just recently restarted our private server, and IC2 was not one of the mods that we included. We loaded it with only Infinicraft and redpower 2. We have previously played with just IC2, redpower 2, and equivalent exchange 2 (it was the only decent magic mod to have for an smp server). The reason we decided not to have IC2 is because we felt that some of the things were just to OP, and that many of the IC2’s best features were either bugy for MP or took away from the survival feel of the game.

    IC2 was once my favorite mod, but to me it feels like it is stagnet in its development. This is mainly becuase i never got into the brewing or the industrial agriculture side. However I can’t say i am dissapointed with IC2, but i did have very high expectations for its growth. I don’t think that this is due to a failure on the development team, this is just the nature of minecraft (IF U HAVE NOT BEEN DISSAPOINTED WITH SOMETHING IN MINECRAFT THEN U HAVE NOT BEEN PLAYING IT LONG ENOUGH).

    I don’t know if i will play IC2 in much in the future, or minecraft for that matter. The only thing that keeps me coming back to this game is the new content that the modding community brings us. For me personaly the only was i will play this mod in the future is if it has some cool novel things. The only mod that I know of with cool new things is thaumcraft 3.

    Thank your for making IC2, I hope to see lots of cool new things in this mod, but i kinda feel burned out on it.

    • Alblaka says:

      “IC2 was once my favorite mod, but to me it feels like it is stagnet in its development. This is mainly becuase i never got into the brewing or the industrial agriculture side.”

      Uhm, of course, if we add new stuff and you don’t use the new stuff, there is not much new to discover in IC².

      • wicshade says:

        I did try the agriculture stuff but it takes so much time to get anywhere with. This is fine except for when we start a new map every 2 weeks, because of certain people getting butt-hurt and nuking the server.

        I have enjoyed this mod and i think that you have delivered this mod to the community in a manner that was very professional for a player-made-mod. I think what I am trying to say is that I am going to put IC2 on the shelf for awhile until it has been long enough for it to feel like a brand new game.

  27. bbqroast says:

    My only ask is thaat if you make IC2 open source. Do it on your own whim. Not because a rather rude, and in my opinion bullying message from a server admin who seems discontent with far to much (I still remember when he went to visit a new town on his server. In fairness it was more aesthetically pleasing than anything he builds but he said “Why did I allow this!?! I must have been drunk.”)

    • bbqroast says:

      Also, by the way. Any good thing that might be added if this mod was open source is far more likely to be suggested on the forums. Despite this, I have seen no good ideas on the forum that have not been accepted. Buildcraft is open source, yet I still find it has far to many bugs for my liking. The forums are practically dead and it seems to teeter forever on the edge of the abyss.

      Also, I have a feeling Kane has no idea about the complexities of making something open source.

  28. Aquilamo says:

    I don’t really think there’s a communication issue, since Albaka is reading and answering some comments.

    Besides, IC was probably something made for fun in the first place, and some users may have forgotten that you shouldn’t really about something you don’t pay for.

    If IC2 is good enough, then you should make something better, not ask others to make it for you…

  29. ChuckG says:

    Alblaka, here at my company we’ve done away with ETA and gone with FDR (‘Focus Days Remaining’). This solution came out from a similar problem to the ones someone like you, who’s having to juggle a lot of life-goals and wear a lot of hats, can experience over the life of a project.

    We used to have many situations where an engineer would state a 40 day ETA that, 10 work days later, the engineer reports as still being a 35 day ETA. This made Marketing – our unsatisfiable customer base – angry and confused. He then has to explain how a day went to this sustaining project, a day got spent working Quality through a problem, and so on.

    Switching to FDR was largely a matter of perception – at base they mean the same thing. But they are perceived differently (at least here) – if the ETA count didn’t go down everyone’s presumption on Engineering was sandbagging or laziness; if FDR stays the same they want to know what other department’s been using up all of our working hours. It shifts the focus from Engineering to the _real_ time-sinks we’re dumping hours into.

    In any case, I love the mod, I want to see it grow and expand further; I hope this helps in some small way!

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